Caring Talk

An important way of taking care of ourselves is by talking with one another. The way we do that talking is important. I call one good way of caring talk dialogue. We make a positive move toward taking care of ourselves by taking part in an ongoing dialogue.

Some have found dialogue topics like the following useful: relationships, opinions, assumptions, sources of information, ways of cooperating. to do ourselves great good we need to talk enough to enable us to recognize one another's values, desires, assumptions, and to come to trust one another appropriately.

We Are All Eaters: Our Farm Bill

A new Farm Bill comes along every five years or so and I am yet to witness a national dialogue or debate on it. It not only effects our national debt, but also what we eat and how much our food costs. It may determine the price of rice in Vietnam and the cost of corn in Mexico. It is our main strategy for feeding ourselves. We, as a people have never taken the time to talk it over.

Most of us, including our legislators, consider it boring, incomprehensible, and unimportant. Its out  Bill,: we can make it as interesting, understandable and important as we want.

We can educate ourselves. We can learn. We can create bills that are much easier to understand and we can talk over the issues and our policy. When the Bill is easier to understand we will probably find it more interesting. We may find ourselves giving our children a better chance of eating well at lower cost!

The Farm bill is important. We would benefit by putting our agricultural policy in better alignment with our public health needs and our environmental needs. We can use the Bill to make it easier to feed our children fresh food. We could make sure that farmers got a fair price with out giving them subsidies which distort their lives and ours.

When we are willing to talk with one another, we can get the issues on the table where we can look them over.

We move toward slavery so long as we do not expand the circle of citizens who decide how we shall get the food we need and want.

Michal Pollan, than you for the reminders.

Questions For A Democratic Group

Have you considered that the highest authority of your group may be the 'loving' expression of the the will of its participants?

Are you giving abundant consideration to the views of the minorities in your group?

Have you take time to practice consensus building skill?

Have you arranged to be well informed by your members who have special knowledge of the issues under consideration? Tapping that knowledge may provide a useful point of departure.

How do you uncover the the skill sets in your group?

How do you democratically conduct your business meetings?

What's Fairness Got to do with Obeying the Law? | Aaron Ross Powell | Libertarianism.org

What's Fairness Got to do with Obeying the Law? | Aaron Ross Powell | Libertarianism.org

I believe that this article can lead to a useful dialogue on basic assumptions that can help us better understand one another.

I'd love to hear your comments.

From Tinnitus to Dialogue

I started looking at some information about tinnitus and found myself looking at associated info about nutrition, acupuncture, cognitive therapy, family roles, and on to  self-help groups. Self help groups lead me to dialogue info.

Self-help groups have learned a lot about effective, non- adversarial dialogue in a democratic mode. Some hints on effective and pleasant dialogue I've gleaned from the tinnitus self-helps group info are listed below. Early in the process:

~ Take time to write out topics attendees think they'd like to hear discussed.

~ Facilitator shares here vision for the group dialogue.

~ Others share their vision for the group.

~ Encourage a 'buddy' system for communication outside group dialogue time.

~ Make the group easy to enter and easy to leave.

~ Raise the awareness of the value of sharing quality thoughts that are productive and useful.

~ Give some examples of unproductive sharing.

~ Consider inviting communication specialists to speak to the group.

~ Share leadership chores widely.

~ Consider that a dialogue my provide the best, almost free, help you are likely to get.

~ Many people want to attend meetings but wait for another to get the ball rolling.

Common Consciousness Dialogue

Upon looking around this human world of ours one might detect the existence of certain communication difficulties.

Some of us see value in practice for better dialogue.

The United Nations,  major church organizations, and  our State Department are institutions in which people have taken time to learn to practice better dialogue. I believe that the practice of effective dialogue can be very beneficial to you and I, to our families and our friends.

I believe that effective dialogue is dialogue which leads to the development of a common consciousness among us. It is dialogue designed to bring us to understanding rather than to agreement.

Notes On Dialogue

To keep our culture healthy we have to share the consciousness we actually have. In sharing our consciousness we discover that we share feelings of frustration and contradictory assumptions. In order to share our consciousnesses we may have to stick with our mutual anger and be angry together. We look at it all together and come to have a common consciousness. When we stick with the hate we may feel we may create a powerfully useful bond among us. A common consciousness is not bliss but, in its creation we may develop useful participation and satisfying fellowship.


We want to avoid physical damage but, anger and panic are not reasons to stop dialogue. When we can stay with our unreasoning anger and panic, we may find in it a strongly creative energy.


In the kind of consciousness sharing we have been speaking of we are practicing ways of preserving and strengthening our society and culture.


It begins by sharing opinions and continues by learning certain dialogue techniques.


David Bohm has shared some valuable opinions and experience in his work On Dialogue.

Dialoguers

Dialoguers tend to agree that they need to listen well and not exclude anything. However the whole is too much and they can't listen yo everything. There is no way that thought can hold the whole. It is the nature of our thinking to abstract, limit, and define.

Dialoguers can't comprehend the absolute truth either. Still, they value the idea of truth and reality highly.

Dialoguers realize that it is useful to keep their demands on dialogue very small.

They find it useful to remember that no individual dialoguer is an authority. Not one of them is the teacher of the the group or a father to a group.

Some dialoguers tend to forget that as dialoguers they have no ppurpose or agenda, no goal or set destination except to better understand and appreciate each others opinions. They don't want to accomplish anything. The tend to find it easier to remember than nobody has to agree on anything.

They do intend to hear as many of the opinions offered as they can. They find that listening to all the opinions brings them together. They try to listen to all the opinuions and try to understand those opinions. They are meeting one another in that they are each putting a number of their cards on the table and they are all looking them over.

They don't have to make any decisions.

Many of them might say that their purpose is to communicate coherently and honestly. To that end they give each other space to talk. They learn to give each other space to be heard.

Notes Related to Practicing Dialogue in a Group

We can understand another's opinion. We can understand each other's opinions.

The question I ask may be latent in our group as a whole. The question another asks may be implicit to the group. Other persons may pick it up and carry it along. This question sharing may lead the group to productive thinking together. All may more nearly participate in one thought. No one need agree.

As we practice dialogue in our group, certain sensitivities are developed. We begin to sense the ways we tend to respond. We begin to attend more to whole persons, and less through the unconscious scree of our own memories. That does not mean that we think less, but rather that we attend more.

As we practice, we begin to create a truer sense of the meaning of our communication. We learn to better know what a particular opinion means to another. We are interested in meaning. We better see the meaning flowing in and through our dialogue.

We learn to be more sensitive to the fact that we tend to defend our own opinions automatically. We become more realistically sensitive to the movement and nuances of our talk.

When our group is large enough we begin to touch more large cultural assumptions. A larger group usually offers more opportunity for a kind of relationship which involves  whole cultures.

We must be part of our group long enough to get to know one another well enough to to trust each other appropriately. We need to know each other well enough to establish a relationship of sharing.

For us, Our practice is mainly a question of culture. Our group forms a microcosm of society. We are uncovering cultural assumptions to look at and to understand.

An essential feature of our dialogue is that it is able to reveal assumptions. We may form a good group, but we know that it is the process which counts and we attend to it. We don't form a group which lasts forever, but rather one that lasts long enough to make a difference.

It may be valuable to keep the dialogue going for as long as a year or two. It is very important to sustain its regularity. It must be sustained to bring out the problems that lead to the bringing out deep assumptions of the persons participating.

In sustaining the group, it is well to keep in mind that it is not always going to be entertaining nor is it always going to be seen as doing something useful. We dialogue because we feel it is necessary to do so.

It is necessary to share meaning. To sustain a way of life, a government, a society, a culture we must share meaning. To be a 'we' to be an 'us' we must share meaning.

Our society works when we have a common culture. A culture entails shared meanings. We share meaning, significance, purpose, values because we believe that it is necessary to do so in order to be.

Jonas Gahr Støre: In defense of dialogue | Video on TED.com

Jonas Gahr Støre: In defense of dialogue | Video on TED.com


Listen and learn more about international dialogue.


Good to remember that dialogue starts at home.


Good to remember that dialogue can include a large group.


Let's talk.


Let's learn to talk better.


We can learn from Norwegians.


Good to remember that learning begins at home.

Old and Slow

A short couple of months before OWS two young acquaintances suggested starting a 'movement.' I started drafting a post of that experience then. I just ran across that start. Thought that it might still be worth 'finishing' and posting.

I told them that I didn't know what they meant by 'movement.' It seemed that they weren't very clear about it either. Though perhaps in their own minds they were clear enough.

I told them that I was willing to talk with them, but they wanted more than 'talk.'

They reminded me that I had mentioned 'organizing' as something useful. I told them to go organize. They asked me how. I suggested that the try 'talking.' They were tired of talk and wanted something more than talk. Also, they were not sure what I meant by 'talk.' I told them that if the wanted, I would help them learn more about effective talk. They had experience with talk and were interested in doing something other than talk.

I was perhaps I was doing more telling than was supportive of good talk. So, I told them that doing was okay with me. They said that they wanted to do organization. Organization seemed  big medicine to them and they wanted help in using that powerful magic.

I mentioned that organization was most often for an objective. They mentioned making things better; things like politics, economics, society, and like that. I said that betterment of those things seemed a grand objective, perhaps too grand.

I then called their attention to the fact that I seem pretty disorganized to some. I told them that I didn't have a family of my own (a pretty traditional organization); that I didn't belong to any organization; that I didn't have a job; that I was no longer the member of a political party.

That took them back a bit.

I told them that I intended to avoid taking part in any organization, movement, or group, that didn't include a lot of ongoing talk.

"Talk about what?" they asked.

"Everything" I answered a bit extravagantly.

Them: Be more specific.

me: Values, assumptions, dialogue skills, clarification of meanings.

Them: We want more than talk.

me: okay.

them: We want you to help.

me: I'll try to help by talking.

them: Okay we are talking.

me: What do you value?

them: Freedom, justice, fairness.

me: What's valuable about freedom?

them: This seems more like interrogation than talk.

me: I just want to understand what we are talking about.

them: A Movement. Freedom to have a movement.

me: I've had two already today, both satisfying.

them: That's a lot of shit.

me; I value shit and assume that it is important to you. Okay, I might consider doing something with you, but it must include a lot of dialogue as I have mentioned. There are other things that I would probably insist on, like no violence and no leaders.

them: can your dialogue and two 'nos' make a movement?

me: I don't think so. Think about it. It might be a start.

them; See you later, maybe.

me: Bye.

Dialogue is Important

What are you willing to say about dialogue or about communication in general? Are you willing to suggest definitions for either? Below are thoughts which come to my mind as I consider dialogue today. Questions are thoughts too aren't they?

Shared meaning is the cement that holds society together. Consider meanings. What is the meaning of meaning? What is the meaning of society? What is the state of our mutual understanding of meaning?
Do we agree on what holds meaning for us? How do we share meaning? What are the better ways of sharing meaning? What is the nature of our society?

Have you ever seen members of a group become frustrated as they try to share meaning? Does sharing meaning frighten you? Are you afraid that your assumptions may be revealed and challenged? Others are. They seek a leader or a protector. They may just walk away.

What if a group is so democratic that it has no leader? If the group is very democratic there may be a great deal of equality felt among its members. I seem to be less fearful among those who respect me as an equal. What is the source of equality?

Talk, communication, dialogue seems a principle way of sharing meaning. Democracy seems to be a step toward open speech.

I think that the practice of dialogue skills can support democracy and the sharing of meaning. I believe that I am still willing to accept some frustration in my life in order to support the sharing of meaning through dialogue. There is a reason for dialogue. It is what helps us to to be an us. It is important.

We benefit by keeping in mind how important dialogue is. If we don't, we begin to think and say: What's the point? This is too much trouble, Let's give it up. It's not getting us anywhere.

Dialogue is as important as important as earning money. Without a healthy society money loses its value. Shared meaning holds society together. Dialogue is an effective way to share meaning.

Dialogue is important.

Opening Notes on Civil Discourse

My present notions of civil discourse include the following:

Civil discourse is talk for public and individual good. It is a respectful way of talking among equals. It is a way of talking in which the worth and judgment of the participants is a given. It requires personal modesty and an appreciation for the experience of the other participants.

Civil discourse is engagement in conversation intended to enhance understanding, It is a way to enjoy productive talk about facts, evidence, observations, and interpretations in a tolerant and courteous way.

I discussed many techniques and methods of dialogue in my Magic Table blog which are highly useful i civil discourse. A principle purpose of 'dialogue' as described in those Magic Table posts was to bring the individuals in groups of various sizes to share common meanings. That dialogue was meant to bring individuals closer to common understanding. One might consider that dialogue as an important subgroup of civil discourse.

Consider:
Who is interested in learning techniques of dialogue?
What are the more useful techniques of dialogue?
Of what use may knowledge of civil discourse be in these days?
Is there a set of categories which support civil discourse and rational inquiry?

Young Couple

Your contentment as a couple can get better by using a bit of a dialogue process I call Equality. It's a serious process, but it feels game-like to some. Couples usually feel comfortable with it.


To begin each partner takes five similar pieces of paper and writes a word on each of them. Each piece of paper will contain one word. Each word will be different from the other. Then the pieces of paper are folded and put in a bag or some other container. Later, one piece of paper will be drawn from the container and read aloud. 


The words are best if they relate in some way to your relationship. However, it is not necessary that they do so. Words like: baby, father, sex, wife, play, relationship, work, money, fun or any other words you choose are okay.


Partner one draws one of the ten pieces of folded paper from the container and gives it to partner two to read. Partner two reads the word and partner one takes about a minute to say what he/she is reminded of by it. Partner one can say what he or she feels about the word or may define it. After partner one takes a minute to talk about the word (its good to use a timer), partner two talks about the word or about what partner one has said about the word. After partner two talks for a minute its time for partner one to talk for another minute. They continue talking by turns of a minute each until they have nothing more to say about the word at the time. Then partner two draws a word and gives it to partner one to read and they continue as before.


It is usually good to set a time limit of between twenty minutes and a hour. It is better to set a limit that is too short rather than too long. One session may be fun, but it takes five or six or more to be really helpful.


Remember to talk about the word that is drawn and never about each other.


Be kind, play fair, and be honest. BE HONEST.


Let me know how it is working out.

Your Kind of Dialogue

The object of this new kind of dialogue is to listen to every one's opinion. The object is  not to judge or analyze or even to exchange opinions. The object is to listen and begin to see what it all means. The object is to come to share  common content. The object is not to agree or disagree, but rather to simply share an appreciation of the meanings.


You may not have read the 50 some post on this topic on my Magic Table blog or the dozen or so on my Isness blog. If that is the, case you might have a less than perfect understand of what I am talking about. Please ask me to clarify and explain the portions you are not sure about.


In important part the purpose of this kind of talk is to deal with difficult communication which is ongoing. It's designed for face to face communication among forty or more people, but may be beneficially used by a couple. This kind of communication, which we have called dialogue, is for use among equals. Everyone contributes, every one participates equally. It is a democratic process.


Not knowing how much you understand of this kind of dialogue has really thrown me off. I don't know what to say to you. Using the comment section just below for a bit of a dialogue of our own would really help me to write more meaningfully.


Maybe I should just forget trying to blog. Or maybe see if a wiki-blog would help me to get more useful feedback.


If you knew what I was talking about we might aim to look at everything together and to acknowledge a participatory consciousness; each partaking of the whole meaning. We would aim to share all the assumptions in the group.  


We would try to leave as little out as possible. We would share common meaning and create common meaning. In a way, a common mind would rise which did not exclude the individual. The meaning of each would be seen.


Each would be free. Individual mind and collective mind both honored. Individual mind would be first as it attempt a harmony with the whole. We would start to move into a new creativity  

Way to Talk

It seems to me that we can benefit from learning a more productive way to talk about that which is important to us.

If you were here I'd ask you to help me name various ways of talking.

Debate is one of them. I think of it as a bit like war. One important aim of debate is winning. The idea seems to be to best an opponent. Producing a win is not the kind of production which interests me here.

My aim in the kind of talk which interests me here is to better understand those with whom I converse. I want to understand them and their views on a deeper level. I want a better understanding of their values and assumptions. I want to better appreciate how they feel about it. I want to be clear about what it is.

I also want to be understood and appreciated.

Debate does not seem to be the best vehicle for such understanding.

Chat is another kind of talk. Chat may go on without dealing with views, values, or assumptions.

Conversation is a great kind of talk and I enjoy it greatly. However, our conversation may not deal well with strongly felt differences, and can lead to argument. Arguments may turn to debate or to verbal fight.

Discussion seems, like conversation, to be  kind of talk between chat and debate. Discussion seems to tend toward persuasion. It often includes the intent to persuade.

The purpose of of the kind of talk which interests me here is about persuasion. The way of talking which interests me here is not about persuasion. I am not interested in persuading or in being persuaded.

My purpose is to to understand and to, perhaps, be understood.

I have been calling this way to talk dialogue

Assumptions?

I think that they are important enough to learn more about.

What  can you tell me about assumptions?
What is an assumption
What does one do with an assumption?
How can I find out what an assumption is about?
What is a assumption good for? What's it bad  for?

Is an assumption likely to be an unconscious act?
Is there one wiggling around in my head right now?
What part do assumptions play in your life?
What part do they play in mine?
Can what I don't know about assumptions hurt me?

I suspect that a person I know may have an unimaginable assumption.
I bet someone I  know someone who has an assumption she hasn't imagined.
I think that your assumption is worthy of consideration.

Why might it be a good idea to discover, explore, observe, study, and analyze an assumption?
Could an assumption of mine get in your way?
Could it get in my way?
Have you ever heard of anyone calling an assumption a prompter? I have, once.
An assumption may be presumptive or contrary to fact, may it not?

Have you heard that an assumption:
~ is often an idea, fact, or set of thoughts taken up or taken in with little or no conscious consideration?
~ can be an idea or point of view taken as granted or true?
~ of yours is the likely source or basis for opinions of yours?
~ is often or usually unconscious?
~ may have begun to form in your infant mind before you learned to speak?

Her assumptions may be so different from yours that they seem truly alien or bizarre to you. Might some of yours seem that way to her?

You can learn to better know an assumption of another, and that other can come to appreciate one of yours.

Coming to more useful knowledge understanding, and appreciation of assumptions takes dialogue experience.
It will probably entail learning new communication skills and learning just a bit more about how you and others think.

An Approach to Assumptions Related to Society

Consider assumptions.

In trying to understand the other man's point of view I have found it useful to take into account my own assumptions as well as his. Often a pertinent assumption is unknown to me. Yes, it happens. The unknown assumption may be mine or his. An assumption may be locked in a part of the mind not easily accessed.
There are probably assumptions in his mind that have never entered mine.

We humans form societies. Often we do so unconsciously. However, there may come a time we will want to form a society consciously. A society is our way of working and living together. A society uses rules, laws, institutions, etc. Rules, laws, institutions are based on assumptions we hold. We may get or assume the rules etc. by thinking and agreeing that we are going to have them, and then we do it. Backing up our thinking, agreeing and doing is culture. Culture is shared meaning, shared assumptions. Much of that sharing is done through communication. Talk is an important form of communication. You have noticed that some persons seem better at talk than others. There are levels of communication skill. There is a set of communications skills that some have called dialogue. It turns out that these dialogue skills are particularly useful for bringing assumptions to light.

As a dramatic example, let's say that a diverse set of people desire to set up a government. I order to do so they will find it useful to agree to a common meaning for the kind of government they want. They are likel to need to agree on what a good government is or on what is the right sort of government for them. Different cultures will produce different governments. If they don't agree they will have a political struggle. If their politics don't work, they may have a civil war.

Disagreeable may arise do to their ignorance of each others assumptions. Dialogue that brings assumptions to light could prevent bloodshed.

Society is based on shared meanings. Shared meanings constitute the culture. Culture may be built or strengthen with education and communication. There is a wide choice of education and communication methods and styles. Not all of the are of equal effectiveness. To make a good and effective society we must learn to share coherent meaning well enough.

Today our larger society seems to have an incoherent meanings. Too often, what the other man is saying seems impossible to understand. This lack of understanding, it seems to me, is worth talking about.

Important talk, difficult talk, may be made easier by using dialogue skills that help us better understand each others assumptions.

Selected Websites on Dialogue

Selected Websites on Dialogue


This site is a little dated.


Dated or not, it is really satisfying to see this gathering of information on dialogue.

Heads Up!

President Clinton gave you a heads up about NAFTA which you refused to heed.

Are you heeding President Obama's heads up about who you intend to pay and what you intend to give up?
It's about taxes.
If you snooze you lose.
If you don't participate in the dialogue you lose.
If you don't get the facts you lose.
If you don't get the information you lose.
It is easy to lose.